Sheku Bayoh Inquiry: Search the Evidence

…the Inquiry, will take your evidence. Before that will you say the words of the affirmation after me please. DR NATHANIEL CARY (affirmed) LORD BRACADALE: Thank you. Ms Grahame. Questions from MS GRAHAME MS GRAHAME: Thank you very much. Good morning, Dr Cary. A. Good morning. Q. You are Nathaniel Cary? A. Yes. Q. We have heard some people…

…" That paragraph. Do you see that? A. Yes. Q. "... in order to facilitate the examination by your expert, Dr Nat Cary, of histology and other samples, a PIRC investigator travelled to Dr Cary's home with the samples and remained while he examined them. Dr Cary asked who the experts chosen by Crown were and was informed that they were Dr K…

…This is AAC 00377. I don't need to go through in this detail but this was a letter of instruction to you, Dr Nat Cary on 18 May 2015 from Aamer Anwar & Co? A. Yes, who sits behind you I think. Q. He does usually. So this was a letter of instruction sent to you by Mr Anwar, and you accepted that instruction. Can I ask you what contact you…

…that you had heard snippets and 130 Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry hearsay and that you had spoken to Nat Cary. A. Uh-huh. Q. Can I ask if it is possible that the information that you got, sight of the conclusions and other hearsay or snippets, was in conversations? You have mentioned Nat Cary, were there conversations with anyone…

…that you had heard snippets and 130 Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry hearsay and that you had spoken to Nat Cary. A. Uh-huh. Q. Can I ask if it is possible that the information that you got, sight of the conclusions and other hearsay or snippets, was in conversations? You have mentioned Nat Cary, were there conversations with anyone…

provide any written documentation or other communication to the Commissioner about the situation with Dr Cary and the delivery of the samples. A. I have no recollection of doing that, no. 136 Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry Q. So, as far as you are aware, where did that information come from, that the Commissioner has put in this le…

…135 Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry Can I ask you first of all, was it you that went to take samples to Dr Cary? A. It was, yes. Q. And he was an expert -- we have heard evidence from Dr Cary and he was an expert that was originally contacted by Aamer Anwar & Co? A. Yes, I am aware of that. Q. You were then the investigator who trav…

…. But I honestly cannot remember discussing -- I was there for a purpose which was to deposit that stuff with Dr Cary, allow him to do his examination and then return 137 Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry with the same items. Q. So in relation to that paragraph in the letter by the Commissioner, do you have any recollection about the…

ayne-James and Dr Karch. Mr Anwar erroneously concluded that the PIRC was seeking evidence of Excited Delirium Syndrome to explain the cause of death. However, and as the Lord Advocate is 118 Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry aware, no such opinion on EDS was sought." And certainly we didn't see any actual instructions to either of th…

…learned friend here. Q. Right. Did you at any point advise the Inquiry of the conversations you had had with Nat Cary? A. I didn't -- I don't think I mentioned him by name but if I did it would have been in the transcripts, because that statement is not a written statement, it's a transcript of a phone conversation, so if it is not there,…

…learned friend here. Q. Right. Did you at any point advise the Inquiry of the conversations you had had with Nat Cary? A. I didn't -- I don't think I mentioned him by name but if I did it would have been in the transcripts, because that statement is not a written statement, it's a transcript of a phone conversation, so if it is not there,…

nd I think it was Nat Cary who you will be talking to tomorrow, who said, "There was a hell of a lot more restraint than that", and I am putting that phrase very loosely because that is my Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry memory of it. That made me think: hmm, yes, in this case I think the sickling is now less important and other fac…

nd I think it was Nat Cary who you will be talking to tomorrow, who said, "There was a hell of a lot more restraint than that", and I am putting that phrase very loosely because that is my Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry memory of it. That made me think: hmm, yes, in this case I think the sickling is now less important and other fac…

…ven earlier today? A. Yes. Q. Thank you. One final thing that I would like to ask you. We hope to hear from a Dr Cary at the end of this hearing. We have not heard from him yet but we have an Inquiry statement from him. I just want to ask you in relation to something he said. He has not given us a full explanation yet, but I would like to…

ust looked at. Mr Aamer Anwar advises the Commissioner that Dr Cary -- and the quotation in the letter says Dr Cary is said to say: "I did not lend any support to the instruction of 138 Transcript of the Sheku Bayoh Inquiry either Dr Payne-James or Dr Karch. It is extremely disappointing if this facilitation is now being used as a means o…