Good policy is made through involving stakeholders. We asked about the Department’s engagement with the workforce and how it understands the practical realities and challenges facing those responsible for implementing policy on the ground. The Department told us that when its officials supported the Williams Review, they consulted very widely with trade unions and workers across the railway, to make sure there was a good understanding of perspectives. It said that, as it has taken forward reforms, it has tried to make sure it has done the same in specific areas. But we heard that the Department has not routinely engaged with rail unions at official level and that this has been done through ministers.50 The Department later wrote to us to clarify the last meetings that ministers, supported by senior officials, have held with members of trade unions.51 The Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen (ASLEF) told us that it had seen a reluctance from the Department to work constructively with the workers and their trade unions in the same manner that was achieved during the pandemic.52